Listed Building Works

I'M VERY WORKING CLASS AND FRANKLY TIRED OF HAVING TO PRETEND I'M NOT TO ACQUIESCE TO SOMEONE ELSE'S IDEOLOGY. AS SUCH YOU MIGHT BE OFFENDED BY THE TONE AND CONTENT OF THE FOLLOWING STATEMENTS. SORRY IF THAT'S THE CASE, IT IS NOT INTENTIONAL.

When is LBC and PP applicable?

From HE website: "In general terms Listed building consent is required for all works of demolition, alteration or extension to a listed building that affect its character as a building of special architectural or historic interest." 

What does this mean? Pretty much anything. Why? Because Old Houses, Pre-1919 houses. Lime built houses. Traditionally built. Heritage Property. Call them what you will; they all have highly reactive materials in them, both for the construction and decoration. Modern construction and decoration materials are virtually inert or very much, not, in completely the wrong manner. 

There are exceptions but very few and I'm not listing them because people take them out context and twist them to their own needs and desires. But it generally isn't what people think it is and even with an exception the onus in on the owner to ensure they do the right thing. "I didn't know", surprisingly isn't an excuse when it comes to damaging our irreplaceable Architectural Heritage that people have very clearly been warned not to. 

Planning permission is applicable in ALL scenarios it normally would be. 

The restoration of original fabric rule is to circumvent Building Inspection rather than Planning Permission. Its a lot more about materials and their use not what homeowners are allowed to build or alter. And again this is for experienced craft or conservation educated professionals. Not property owners. 

What does like-for-like mean?

Essentially; not anything you will have heard of or can be bought from a builders merchants.  

I know this sounds rude and people always get a little irritated by this but let me be very clear this is for experienced professionals who spent a lot of time learning their profession or craft NOT property owners who did a Google search or suppliers with profit driven motivations. The idea that you CANNOT get any traditional material is fundamentally stupid because they are locally sourced 99% of the time. There are exceptions but nowhere near as many as people think. The problem is time and money, eg. not many people will pay for me to dig up their garden so I can match the aggregates used in the original construction of their house or better yet source some from neighbours. And then to process that material. The same with timber, it could be sourced locally from land owners and tree surgeons with some effort but not many people will do that and paying someone to do it is very expensive. Then you have to wait, literally years. The nice idea would be that local craftsmen stay local but there are rarely enough people in an area willing to pay. Craftwork takes a lot of time and effort from sourcing raw materials to completion. Eg. In no world is tannalised timber, softwood full of chemicals anywhere close to traditionally produced cleft Oak or Pitch Pine? Nor are plastic concreting fibres anything like animal hair.     

Why is it expensive?

Consultations. Sourcing materials. Required Skill levels. 

Just because people see a craftsperson do one thing that looks easy does not under any circumstances mean it should be cheap. You pay people for what they could be doing not what they are doing, Because the people who can only do that one thing can't be trusted to not get something else wrong. That's why we're expensive. Professionals are pretty much the same, they often say the same few things which I could list but that's their bread and butter and on the rare occasion that there is deviation from it then they're definitely necessary. In all honesty a lot of us don't always use consultants but good God, if that isn't our decision and definitely NOT the clients. They aren't liable for work a craftsman does and if they insist its more than fair enough to expect a legal disclaimer from the client, paid for by them, absolving the craftspeople of ANY responsibility. Guess what...they all choose to use consultants instead. Usually in conjunction with another craftsperson after basically being abusive and harassing with no boundaries, for weeks, if not months. Even though I have built most of this site I have gotten things wrong, God knows what's going on with things like my SEO's. I should have paid a professional but my house isn't going to rot and crumble just because I didn't...

You can not do the three things listed but its not Listed Building Works then, its just people taking short cuts to save money. So buy a cheaper or smaller property like poor people do. Seriously, if I hear another comfortable person moan about paying me, a working man who's been priced out of the inner city Victorian working class neighbourhood his family comes from, by gentrification, I might scream! The people who an awful lot of these properties were built for can fix them, but can't afford them anymore. The hypocrisy of this truly astounds me: the market price gets driven up by instagramers who can't fix their own house who then complain to the people who can, about their wage...seriously? Do you want a class revolution?    

Common Pitfalls

Without even writing this I know virtually all of these will be down to laziness, ignorance or gullibility. Hence the need for professionals. 

It is very easy to Google things, don't. Its nearly always wrong about the things I know are true and just repeats the most common belief in every subject. 

Don't believe people who sell products that don't have a warranty or guarantee and even then check very carefully what it means or requires. Do not make assumptions. Eg. there is a popular branded timber sold as suitable for old properties with a 50 year warranty, so what? Oak lasts a lot longer and that timber is actually a treatment. Other more suitable hardwoods can last a very, very long time in ANY conditions. There are tropical hardwoods that sit submerged in a jungle for 125 years and then we use them in our gardens ffs. Why do people rave about this product whilst literally removing windows which have lasted over a 100 years, its insane.

Its always longer and harder than you think, all of it. And probably more expensive.

Not many people do this work so don't piss them off by being rude, offhand or in any other way off putting. If I have two potential clients and one is unpleasant, I know which one I'll work for. I recently had a client ask me to do something I don't do, six times. I said no every time and eventually had to get rid of them. This seems to be a thing with corporate or strict types, like the win or domination of another man in this manner has some meaning. Or this "I'll just wear them down to get my own way" approach to dealing with people. I don't know why it happens, its weird. But I do know this, f##k that. You don't project your highly unpleasant ideology onto me in my workplace. Even if it is your property. I have a right to work free from harassment in a positive environment of my choosing. 

Getting too conservationy. You do not need to do half the things I see keen, good minded people doing. Eg. you do not need to use hand tools anywhere near as much, but and its a big Kim Kardashian sized but, you need to know what will damage something and what won't. Trying to remove cement pointing from damaged stone is far less harmful with the correct power tools than a hammer and chisel because of the amount power required to break cement causes too much damage to the surrounding stone. But not always so hire a craftsperson.

I can do that myself, no problem. I recently had a client who said he was going to plaster his entire cottage in 6 weeks. I pointed out that he would have to spend approx. 2 weeks making 10m3 of plaster and that there are minimum requirements between coats. And that perhaps he should consider multiplying that number by a factor of 10.    

So what should I do?

Well firstly you should contact someone to guide you through the process. 

This person should be someone you like and trust, normally the owner of the closest craft firm to your property type eg. brick mason for brick, stonemason for stone etc. or a conservation professional closely related to the type of works eg. Architect for an extension or Surveyor for damp. More often than not if you get the correct person that's all you need to do. They will help you with everything. And these people will hire or recommend subcontractors such as myself. 

I would be wary of any one person or smaller business who says they can do both and everything. I find it highly unlikely that you are going to get high quality services across the board in those scenario but there are exceptions. I can replicate masonry from most periods but I have no idea about the paperwork.  

So your options are essentially hire a business who work with subcontractors and umbrella's all of this or hire the people separately and through recommendation. The difference is that the first is guaranteed and controllable but expensive and the second is more time consuming and could go wrong but is far cheaper. 

Research, research, research. Buy the big expensive HE conservation books if you want an easy life or go on recommendations from places like SPAB or HE but even both of those avenues have mistakes due to ongoing research and discoveries. Again don't trust anything and don't assume the most popular answer or the simplest is the right one, because it generally isn't. I'm sure I will have got many things wrong but that's the point, conservation is ongoing, not static. 

The Well's method, which has been one of the most influential pieces of research on lime for the last few decades was prefaced with a statement where the authors said it was probably wrong... The science, well that's just a bit shit because there isn't enough money and if I can spot the mistakes then it must be. From my perspective it truly amazes me that people from the concrete technology sector aren't more closely involved in lime research as I suspect they could answer the questions we're asking very easily. Eg. that sector basically make Roman Concrete but conservation have only just discovered that's what it is. I could go into detail about crystals but I'd bore myself tbh. And recently that sector has developed software that models crystal growth which could help design perfectly matching lime mortars given the correct data. I bet no-one in conservation is on it like car bonnet though, when literally everyone involved with lime should pool their resources to catalogue and input all limes, aggregates and additives to make it effortless but a lot of people get paid to do all that individually and they are the same people who would have to do it...so Catch 22. There is money in getting things wrong too, don't quote me on this but there is a brick supplier in a certain area near me that does not sell the right bricks for the exposure level of that area so they get damaged by environmental conditions and have to be replaced regularly. I might be wrong and it might just be that ALL people are too tight to pay for them, but I doubt it. Seems like standard aggressive capitalism to me. And it wouldn't surprise me if the larger cement supply industry has been deliberately misinforming so they can sell NHL's, then putties and now hot mixed lime products to the same people three times in 50 years when it should only be done once every 1OO years. 

Can everyone involved go to jail for doing the wrong thing?

Yes. 

Are listed buildings more expensive to maintain?

Again most definitely, Yes. Two or three times more expensive. Its here in black and white, from an experienced professional with very clear pricing. Don't be so stupid as to think you can somehow save more money than a professional can too, you can't unless you input more time/labour, as with anything. I've said it twice now, so hopefully this sinks in and people don't have that inevitable conversation with each other were they somehow manage to convince themselves that everyone else is wrong and they're right. "But its only".....nope you've been told. I believe there is a Venn diagram with Fast/Cheap/Good that clearly describes this point.

Who is involved?

Craftspeople By far the best and most important people in the entire world. This is a builder or tradesman who has extensive experience working for the following (time served) or is themselves a college educated or apprenticed conservation specialist. Eg. A college educated brick layer will not be suitable, they have to have NVQ level 2 or 3 in Heritage Bricklaying or actual experience in conservation or they will not know what they don't know. Which is a lot and potentially harmful to your property. Anyone good with the right knowledge can acquire a GOLD CSCS card with fairly minimal effort or cost. Eg. I could get half a dozen cards as could the majority of craftsmen. And a lot of them can just be bought so there is no excuse beyond not even being that aware that they exist and yes that is very much the case a lot of the time at the more local scale. They/we are a touch more informed than normal builders and tradies too. This will be obvious when you speak to them and you haven't got a clue about something that you thought was simple. Again there are occasional exceptions to this but not many and small time, local people are generally not very good when it comes to knowledge, great skillset but wrong idea. I'd really love for these guys to work alongside the Conservation Professionals but they are usually incredibly stubborn know-it-all's too. See Types of Mason. 

Conservation Professionals Ok so these guys are either amazing or a nightmare. If the individual is ACTUALLY conservation educated then they are a true font of knowledge and wisdom and work fantastically well in conjunction with skilled craftspeople at finding cost effective sympathetic, LBC friendly solutions to virtually any problem. And then there are people with a generic or even loosely related BA from some random college who think they can...these people are the devil. They give out horrendous advice in a manner which basically covers their arse and gets them paid. Often without realising it. The exception to this is the Chartered Professionals whose knowledge is so comprehensive it doesn't matter what it is they work on. I love these people and irritate them so much with endless questions. How do you know you have the right professional? IHBC maybe but its not always a guarantee. Also look at what they've done because conservation pays better and is more rewarding so virtually no-one will do anything else if they are trained. Also their solutions will involve pre-exsiting elements and not be entirely new, if that makes sense? So restore the plaster not stick on wood wool boards etc. See my Lime FAQ's for more examples of solutions I dislike and why. 

I once had a 45 minute conversation with a Chartered Concrete Engineer about spraying and covering it or not. He was so, so clever and his understanding of his subject was so utterly complete it was an enlightening delight! The other side of this coin is the people like an Architect I came across recently who was very interested in old buildings but did not have a clue about them and hand drew some truly beautiful plans that were completely useless. He didn't know anything and I had to fight the client to get this through to him which eventually resulted in my not taking the job because I didn't want to either do it wrong or have multiple unpaid meetings to educate him and the Architect. Its a true shame because most of these scenarios are for really interesting and rewarding works, hence the involvement of the "professional" at such an early stage.

Conservators Again these guys can be good and bad. If they stay in their lane, then fine but if they deviate and think their education gives them instant craftmanship in some way, then it becomes a problem. I have seen some of the worst work ever completed in some of the most important historic locations because someone wanted to play at stonemason or carpenter. But without a doubt some of the best and most competent and world leading professionals in the field are also these people. Their knowledge and advanced scientific skillset can be incomparable. Very, very tricky. It's a professional route too, you definitely need a relevant degree. 

At some point in most craftpeoples career your profession will finally just click, you may not realise this happening but will turn around secretly smug one day when realise you can essentially do anything within your remit with minimal effort and pretty much any tools or materials. Fast. Conservators rarely achieve this because they don't undertake the necessary volume of work required to acquire such a fundamental skillset. This and knowledge is the difference between a tradesperson and a craftsperson too. A one trick tradie who just uses craft materials is NOT a craftsperson. Common with gypsum plasterers who will find a lime supplier who supports and retrains them and then they just go absolutely nuts and rip out everything replacing it all with very modern lime plasters which can often deteriorate the property. Same with repointing and rendering. Its not a coincidence that the people who supply and can only do one thing, really want to do that one thing they've got a good supply of. These guys do some weirdly time consuming shit from a point of ignorance too. EG. spraying air lime to stop it drying out, this does not work at all and that is not why you do it. Its to increase the rate and evenness of carbonation and should only be done about twice a week. Air lime only needs less than 1% humidity to cure ffs. Hydraulic lime and Ordinary Portland Cement however will stop curing if it gets dry and needs that water to set. Finishing it all like OPC too, that gets on my nerves as most OPC applications require you to bring the fat to the surface and leave it there to harden. Where as lime is the opposite, you really don't want the fat on the surface. OPC is so strong it can handle less binder just behind the surface layer but lime can't and often suffers from frost/salt damage making the surface friable. Literally just did it myself on purpose to avoid having to go back and beat some mortar back, knowing full well that it would flake off and have the same visual effect to match the pre-existing mortar and then cure the following year. Don't tell anyone though because it's just bad working practice...it wasn't an important application or Listed Works so meh.         

Conservation Officers Completely random and dependant upon your local council. Some councils have them and are almost aggressive in their approach, some don't and couldn't give less of a shit. But there is one unifying factor, they're all unavoidable and its just childish to put off contacting them, Ask the question, develop a relationship etc. DO NOT argue or try and trick them and definitely (and this goes for everyone who works on your house, or in general life) do not demean what they do as being insignificant, unnecessary or over the top. 

Who shouldn't be? Anyone in it for the money. We do it because we love it, all of us. But we definitely aren't getting paid less than our shitty modern colleagues just because we do. Not in this market. And anyone self taught or from a different but similar background. Some of these people are very good but it will be obvious by the work they've completed. Don't just assume it.  

And your Dad, tell him from me I said "stfu, you haven't got a clue, you DIY donut". The stories I have about these idiots or the friend who is an "x" who said this and that are ridiculous and often illogical. I had an Engineer who specified a solution for his parents by copy/pasting from a modern installation, He was an a-hole for making me tell his parents how much of ignorant moron he was. Obviously I was tactful and employed excessive sarcasm instead of being quite so blatant about it.